What the heck is...

Deleted · Post by **Deleted** » Sun Apr 01, 2001 4:55 pm

Originally posted by Cat Jesus:

Really? Care to name names and maybe create a dead pool. Hmm, 10 to 20 years that must mean these men you speak of are in their mid 50's to mid sixties.

My information on this point comes mainly from Bill, who has been around the organized atheist/agnostic/humanist movement for many years and knows people in all the major groups.

Cat Jesus, I suspect you don't understand where I'm coming from on this issue. Please see my post to eagles, above.

One of the things that has helped the evangelical churches to grow is that they make a point of being friendly to newcomers. One of the reasons why our side has not been able to fight back as hard as it otherwise could is that groups on our side -- at least in large cities -- tend to be cliquish and NOT friendly to newcomers. This has been one of my longstanding beefs with, for example, various feminist and gay groups (i.e. other enemies of the Religious Right) here in New York. And it seems to be somewhat of a problem here too.

Here, it's not a problem for me personally. I feel pretty accepted around here, probably because I've gone out of my way to provide information, e.g. in the Church-State Separation forum. Yet I do notice the lack of a generally welcoming attitude towards a lot of other people by a lot of people here. (You're not the only one, by any means.)

I'm NOT saying we should love-bomb people the way the hardcore Christians and other cultists do. But I do think a little consideration for other people's feelings would go a long way.

I'm sorry if this comes across to you as offensively "school-marmish." PLEASE try to think about the issues involved, rather than taking it personally.

[This message has been edited by Kate Long (edited April 01, 2001).]

Deleted · Post by **Deleted** » Sun Apr 01, 2001 7:19 pm

Kate I'll bet you $20 you are an eNTj.

Oh, I'm from the suburban sprawl, on the eastern seaboard, in the south center of the megapolis that stretches from DC to Boston. Actually I'm just being stupid: Wilmington, Delaware.

Fundies are a rare breed around here, they have been forced underground. I have a friend from work who is from Indonesia and he is the most religious person I know, and he's not even very religious.

I even went to his church with him once about 3 months ago(don't ask me why). It was evangelical and being raised Catholic it was one of the strangest things I've seen in my life. At the beggining they played soft christian pop-rock and everyone went around for like 20 minutes shaking everyones hand, smiling, saying hello etc etc.

The way the service went was strange too. They kept stopping after short sermons, and a live band would play some more soft christian pop rock. People were swaying and holding their hands in the air as if in some sort of daze.

They kept pressuring me to fill out a visitors membership application, I obliged, and the called me (thank gxd for caller ID) about 5 times in the next two weeks.

I felt out of place and uncomfortable the entire time. It was much too weird for me. They seemed nice though and I think that is what they are going for.

It's mostly Catholic around here and they are pretty non-agressive in their tactics and harmless. Most of the Catholics I know (including my entire family) are just "label Catholics".

Deleted · Post by **Deleted** » Sun Apr 01, 2001 7:58 pm

Originally posted by Eagles:

Kate I'll bet you $20 you are an eNTj.

I dunno. I once tried to take that damn personality test and gave up in disgust after only several questions. To nearly all of them, I wanted to answer either "both" or "neither."

Oh, I'm from the suburban sprawl, on the eastern seaboard, in the south center of the megapolis that stretches from DC to Boston. Actually I'm just being stupid: Wilmington, Delaware.

Not surprising. I'm from New York myself and am well aware that most of the eastern seaboard is pretty nonreligious, for the most part, at least in middle-class areas. However, I also know people from the Bible Belt, and that's another world.

Deleted · Post by **Deleted** » Sun Apr 01, 2001 8:19 pm

Originally posted by Kate Long:
Originally posted by Eagles:
Not surprising. I'm from New York myself and am well aware that most of the eastern seaboard is pretty nonreligious, for the most part, at least in middle-class areas. However, I also know people from the Bible Belt, and that's another world.

I was skeptical about the test when I took it too. When I took it I actually thought it was some sort of pop-culture gimmick. I was shocked when it gave me the readout. It was like I was pegged for exactly what I was. The questions seem stupid but they are stacked so if you are wishy washy about a certain question the next will clear it up. I highly recommend it, it will tell you a lot about what you are good at and confirm what you already know. I greatly respect that test now as a psychological tool.

About the bible belt, yeh it is a completly differant world down there. I spent about 3 months in Corpus Christi, TX., and I felt like I was in a differant country. I think Religion will stick for much longer in the rural areas, just because of lack of exposure to outside ideas. Although, the internet could change that given proper time. This is a brand new, fresh out the box, form of information exchange we are using. Old ideas will fall.

Deleted · Post by **Deleted** » Sun Apr 01, 2001 8:57 pm

Originally posted by Eagles:

About the bible belt, yeh it is a completly differant world down there. I spent about 3 months in Corpus Christi, TX., and I felt like I was in a differant country. I think Religion will stick for much longer in the rural areas, just because of lack of exposure to outside ideas. Although, the internet could change that given proper time. This is a brand new, fresh out the box, form of information exchange we are using. Old ideas will fall.

You're assuming here that the only or main relevant difference between urban and rural areas is the latter's relative lack of information. There are also other differences that may be relevant, such as:

1) The difference in perceived relationship between humans and nature. In a farming community, everyone's livelihood depends on a factor not under human control at all: the weather. Thus, farmers are more likely to feel dependent on "God" than urban office workers, who would more likely see their livelihood as depending just on the activities of humans.

2) The difference in how people relate to other people in their geographic community, given the difference in population density.

Anyhow, during the past few decades, there has been a revival of religiosity even in cities. Here in New York, there seems to have been quite a revival of religiosity among Jews, in particular. As for Christianity, a lot of Pentecostal and other extreme churchs have sprung up around here too, mainly in the slums.

Even among thoroughly secularized urbanites, there is still a tendency to turn to religion or religion-like activities as a way of meeting particular needs. Note the enormous growth of the 12-step programs, for example.

Finally, it should be noted that extremely religious people tend to have more children than nonreligious people. Among Jews in particular, this seems to be a big factor, and is believed to be tha main reason why the ratio of nonreligious to religious Jews in Israel has been rising dramatically over the past several decades.

[This message has been edited by Kate Long (edited April 01, 2001).]