Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'

none_ · Post by **none_** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:32 am

http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm

Atwill's most intriguing discovery came to him while he was studying "Wars of the Jews" by Josephus [the only surviving first-person historical account of first-century Judea] alongside the New Testament. "I started to notice a sequence of parallels between the two texts," he recounts. "Although it's been recognised by Christian scholars for centuries that the prophesies of Jesus appear to be fulfilled by what Josephus wrote about in the First Jewish-Roman war, I was seeing dozens more. What seems to have eluded many scholars is that the sequence of events and locations of Jesus ministry are more or less the same as the sequence of events and locations of the military campaign of [Emperor] Titus Flavius as described by Josephus. This is clear evidence of a deliberately constructed pattern. The biography of Jesus is actually constructed, tip to stern, on prior stories, but especially on the biography of a Roman Caesar."

I'm feeling a bit vindicated having posited my self as a Jesus Myther and saying recently about the book of Mark being fabricated with the intent of adding to the bible.
the whole article discusses the upcoming event at which this will be discussed oct 19th in London.

dockeen · Post by **dockeen** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:53 am

Some crimes can not be confessed to.

dockeen · Post by **dockeen** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:55 am

There is a fair amount of discussion of this on one of Robert M. Price's facebook pages,
which I will no doubt confuse with what I read here, because I am growing senile.

Toto · Post by **Toto** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:17 am

Price's review of Atwill

Tom Verenna: No, Joe Atwill, Rome did not invent Jesus

Don't waste your time. Atwill is not a mythicist. He has a bizarre and improbable conspiracy theory.

purple_kathryn · Post by **purple_kathryn** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:55 am

Although on another forum I am a member of (it's not religion related) I did get to feel immensely superior to the person who claimed that there was less evidence for the existence of Julius Caesar than Jesus

dockeen · Post by **dockeen** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:03 pm

[quote=""purple_kathryn""]Although on another forum I am a member of (it's not religion related) I did get to feel immensely superior to the person who claimed that there was less evidence for the existence of Julius Caesar than Jesus[/quote]

For a while, that was the cool, 'gotcha' thing to say for xtians.

ApostateAbe · Post by **ApostateAbe** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:09 pm

[quote=""none_""]http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm

Atwill's most intriguing discovery came to him while he was studying "Wars of the Jews" by Josephus [the only surviving first-person historical account of first-century Judea] alongside the New Testament. "I started to notice a sequence of parallels between the two texts," he recounts. "Although it's been recognised by Christian scholars for centuries that the prophesies of Jesus appear to be fulfilled by what Josephus wrote about in the First Jewish-Roman war, I was seeing dozens more. What seems to have eluded many scholars is that the sequence of events and locations of Jesus ministry are more or less the same as the sequence of events and locations of the military campaign of [Emperor] Titus Flavius as described by Josephus. This is clear evidence of a deliberately constructed pattern. The biography of Jesus is actually constructed, tip to stern, on prior stories, but especially on the biography of a Roman Caesar."

I'm feeling a bit vindicated having posited my self as a Jesus Myther and saying recently about the book of Mark being fabricated with the intent of adding to the bible.
the whole article discusses the upcoming event at which this will be discussed oct 19th in London.[/QUOTE]
It is an article that Joseph Atwill himself seemingly paid for, and it is getting a surprising amount of play on the web. I have seen it linked in two Facebook groups that have nothing to do with religion. So, I will copy and paste my response.

Joseph Atwill thinks a second-century Roman court invented Jesus in order to rule. It is like other conspiracy theories except crazier than usual. It would be impossible for Atwill to explain the imminent first-century doomsday prophecies in Paul, Mark and Q (i.e. Mark 9:1 and Mark 13:30) and the awkward apologetics that followed in later Christian writings (i.e. John 21:20-23 and 2 Peter 3:3-8).

"Although to many scholars his theory seems outlandish..." No. It would seem outlandish to absolutely every scholar. Atwill himself is no scholar, just an author.

Vindication should come from evidence and a strong argument, not some author who agrees. For every idiot hypothesis held by a thousand people, there is a smart author willing to capitalize on it.

I am willing to grant you that Atwill is a mythicist, however.

Robert Tulip · Post by **Robert Tulip** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:39 pm

Richard Carrier has today published this demolition of Atwill which should be required reading for anyone who wishes to take notice of this crank.

funinspace · Post by **funinspace** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:25 pm

[quote=""dockeen""]

purple_kathryn;7563137 wrote:Although on another forum I am a member of (it's not religion related) I did get to feel immensely superior to the person who claimed that there was less evidence for the existence of Julius Caesar than Jesus

For a while, that was the cool, 'gotcha' thing to say for xtians.[/QUOTE]
I never understood how people could be so stupid with that statement, even when I was Christian...and pretty damn ignorant.

ApostateAbe · Post by **ApostateAbe** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:32 pm

[quote=""funinspace""]

dockeen;7563138 wrote:
For a while, that was the cool, 'gotcha' thing to say for xtians.

I never understood how people could be so stupid with that statement, even when I was Christian...and pretty damn ignorant.[/QUOTE]
I think the fallacy is more general. Evidence cannot be easily quantified in such a way that more evidence means more certainty for a given inference. There is a helluva lot of evidence for Jesus, so long as you count "evidence" sufficiently broadly. Me writing the name, "Jesus," can count as one piece of evidence for the existence of Jesus.