I've worked at the same company for about ten years. My wife has worked there for the past 5. The founder of the company was a benevolent old design engineer who had a reputation for having a strong moral and physical fiber. A few years back, the company was handed over to new management who have since exhibited a track record of caring about stockholders above all else. It should be no surprise that they come from companies such as Goldman Sachs.
At any rate, the new management established a forum on our company intranet where questions could be asked and answered by management. The employees have been told that the submissions are anonymous and that all questions will be answered.
One afternoon I was talking to a fellow employee who had been hired as a "temp". They told me that their "temporary" position had lasted more than three years. My immediate response was to submit a question about temporary employees, the fact that it is a misnomer and inquiring about the benefits that these dedicated employees deserve. The response given in person at a company-wide meeting was essentially that those "temps" just hang in there and, if they're worth their salt, they can count on a permanent position complete with the benefits afforded to others.
Unsatisfied, I contacted our corporate ethics hotline and described the situation to them. They told me to call back in a month to follow up. When I did I was told simply that "The complaint had been resolved". In response I submitted another question to the intranet forum asking what was meant by "resolved". Would they be letting go of temporary employees or taking them on permanently or perhaps something else entirely? I received no response.
Today, my wife was searching the intranet for something unrelated when she stumbled upon the database containing the questions submitted to the forum. They were right there in the open. After a little bit of simple snooping I found that I was able to view my own pending questions. In doing so, I established that when I was logged in, only my questions appeared and that when my wife was logged in she saw hers. This, in my eyes, is incontrovertible proof that the questions are not anonymous.
Worse than that, the status of my question regarding temporary employees and the company's response via the ethics hotline was listed as "Do not answer". I can't, even with my imagination firing on all cylinders, reconcile this information with their previous claim that all questions would be answered.
I've come to the conclusion over the past few years that, at my company, the squeaky wheel gets the ax. So what do I do? I don't think that reporting these boldfaced lies to the ethics hotline will have any effect and I fear that speaking up in person will jeopardize my job. I don't feel like I can just do nothing though so, I'm torn.
Do any of you have any advice?
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Ethical Dilemma at Work
First bit of advice, stop posting on that forum.
Here is the reality of business. Any corporate hierarchy reflects the person(people) at the top. You no longer work for a benevolent engineer. Your first clue should have been when someone expressed concern about stockholders. No one gives a fuck about stockholders. What this really means is they care about the stock price. There is a difference. Forget about the ethics hotline. It's a trap to find out what the underlings are doing.
Second bit of advice, decide if you can live with it.
Unless you are in line for a very high management position, there is nothing you can do to affect this situation. Concentrate on your own job and quit worrying about other people. Be careful not to commit any felonies and keep a back up of all communications, but not on the internet. Get a half dozen thumb drives and carry a different one each day of the week.
Third bit of advice, diversify.
Either you or your wife needs to find a job at a different company.
Here is the reality of business. Any corporate hierarchy reflects the person(people) at the top. You no longer work for a benevolent engineer. Your first clue should have been when someone expressed concern about stockholders. No one gives a fuck about stockholders. What this really means is they care about the stock price. There is a difference. Forget about the ethics hotline. It's a trap to find out what the underlings are doing.
Second bit of advice, decide if you can live with it.
Unless you are in line for a very high management position, there is nothing you can do to affect this situation. Concentrate on your own job and quit worrying about other people. Be careful not to commit any felonies and keep a back up of all communications, but not on the internet. Get a half dozen thumb drives and carry a different one each day of the week.
Third bit of advice, diversify.
Either you or your wife needs to find a job at a different company.
First of all, this is the real world. There is no black and white rules of what is anonymous and what is not even when it is suppose to be anonymous. A priest that swears by confidentiality to a terrorist may break that promise if breaking the promise is more important to him than keeping it.
Secondly and most importantly, this is the temp's problem to fix. Companies especially like yours do not - and should not - have any interest in doing more for an employee than what the employee is willing to work for if that company wants to exist with the competition. It is up to the temp to voice a concern. You would be better off expressing your concern directly to the temp.
Secondly and most importantly, this is the temp's problem to fix. Companies especially like yours do not - and should not - have any interest in doing more for an employee than what the employee is willing to work for if that company wants to exist with the competition. It is up to the temp to voice a concern. You would be better off expressing your concern directly to the temp.
I've had my entry into an IT department, and have had a good long look at company wide databases, and I can say that there's no way I would trust any transaction done electronically to be completely anonymous, especially one on a forum.
If you want your job, don't post things anonymously, don't make waves. It's easy to get caught up in a cycle of moral righteousness because it feels right, but most of the time it's just pissing into the wind.
If you want your job, don't post things anonymously, don't make waves. It's easy to get caught up in a cycle of moral righteousness because it feels right, but most of the time it's just pissing into the wind.
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Loren Pechtel
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Sorry to take so long responding.
Perhaps I was naive to think that the ethics hotline was either independent from the company or at least staffed by people who cared about and could do something about what is going on.
I've been lucky enough to be well taken care of by the company so, although I have strong (or perhaps not so much as I've thought) moral convictions about this unfair treatment, I'm reluctant to risk losing the level of financial comfort I've been afforded.
I'm not exactly next in line but, I could see myself possibly assuming a significant management role within the next decade or less. I should note that I'm relatively early into my career but regarded as an "up and comer".
What specifically do you think would be helped by carrying multiple thumb drives? I'm not sure what to do with that advice.
Regarding diversification, I would love if there were better practical options. I have established the foundations of a good career here and I won't comment on my wife's sentiments about finding a different employer. If you are or have been married I'm sure you can understand.
As to confidentiality, I assume that nothing is private as a matter of course but, I suppose I'm surprised that they would be so blatant in lying about it. I endeavor, as a wheel, to only squeak when things are truly upsetting to me so I don't have any fears about what I've already submitted.
With regards to the other employee's responsibilities I feel that I am, at least in part, morally responsible for my fellow man. If you are not familiar with my position on morality, I feel this way as a matter of personal preference and do not believe that they are inherently entitled to fair treatment or my assistance.
In any case, I've spoken with some of them and none are willing to speak up any more than they already have.
Are we really just stuck with the status quo as you seem to suggest? Shouldn't somebody stand up and say something in the face of inequity? I might not have the courage to be the one but, don't you hope that someone does? I know that our hopes don't mean much when it comes to reality but, is there anyone who you would advise to take up the torch? Is it a lost cause entirely?
Thank you all.
Great advice!ksen wrote:2nd amendment
I appreciate the considerate advice. I should clarify that the "forum" isn't structured like the fora here. It's more of a virtual drop-box with a web page for displaying responses.bronzeage wrote:First bit of advice, stop posting on that forum.
Here is the reality of business. Any corporate hierarchy reflects the person(people) at the top. You no longer work for a benevolent engineer. Your first clue should have been when someone expressed concern about stockholders. No one gives a fuck about stockholders. What this really means is they care about the stock price. There is a difference. Forget about the ethics hotline. It's a trap to find out what the underlings are doing.
Second bit of advice, decide if you can live with it.
Unless you are in line for a very high management position, there is nothing you can do to affect this situation. Concentrate on your own job and quit worrying about other people. Be careful not to commit any felonies and keep a back up of all communications, but not on the internet. Get a half dozen thumb drives and carry a different one each day of the week.
Third bit of advice, diversify.
Either you or your wife needs to find a job at a different company.
Perhaps I was naive to think that the ethics hotline was either independent from the company or at least staffed by people who cared about and could do something about what is going on.
I've been lucky enough to be well taken care of by the company so, although I have strong (or perhaps not so much as I've thought) moral convictions about this unfair treatment, I'm reluctant to risk losing the level of financial comfort I've been afforded.
I'm not exactly next in line but, I could see myself possibly assuming a significant management role within the next decade or less. I should note that I'm relatively early into my career but regarded as an "up and comer".
What specifically do you think would be helped by carrying multiple thumb drives? I'm not sure what to do with that advice.
Regarding diversification, I would love if there were better practical options. I have established the foundations of a good career here and I won't comment on my wife's sentiments about finding a different employer. If you are or have been married I'm sure you can understand.
ryan, I feel that I am fairly realistic when it comes to my expectations of these type of affairs but, I also hold the (perhaps false) belief that some recourse is possible. I guess the biggest piece of advice I'm looking for is, is it even possible to do anything meaningful about this?ryan wrote:First of all, this is the real world. There is no black and white rules of what is anonymous and what is not even when it is suppose to be anonymous. A priest that swears by confidentiality to a terrorist may break that promise if breaking the promise is more important to him than keeping it.
Secondly and most importantly, this is the temp's problem to fix. Companies especially like yours do not - and should not - have any interest in doing more for an employee than what the employee is willing to work for if that company wants to exist with the competition. It is up to the temp to voice a concern. You would be better off expressing your concern directly to the temp.
As to confidentiality, I assume that nothing is private as a matter of course but, I suppose I'm surprised that they would be so blatant in lying about it. I endeavor, as a wheel, to only squeak when things are truly upsetting to me so I don't have any fears about what I've already submitted.
With regards to the other employee's responsibilities I feel that I am, at least in part, morally responsible for my fellow man. If you are not familiar with my position on morality, I feel this way as a matter of personal preference and do not believe that they are inherently entitled to fair treatment or my assistance.
In any case, I've spoken with some of them and none are willing to speak up any more than they already have.
I know but, I fear that any pro-union activity is just asking to be a part of the next "right sizing" or "restructuring". There is no union to speak of and, while I feel that I possess enough of the trust of the general working population to start one, I don't know if I could commit to leading the charge. If I felt assured that they couldn't hold it against me I'd start a union in an instant but, if others here are being more realistic than jaded, it could just be a waste.dx713 wrote:That's what unions are for. Find a representative and dump the mess into his lap.
I appreciate and share your distrust in the so-called anonymous.rosseau wrote:I've had my entry into an IT department, and have had a good long look at company wide databases, and I can say that there's no way I would trust any transaction done electronically to be completely anonymous, especially one on a forum.
If you want your job, don't post things anonymously, don't make waves. It's easy to get caught up in a cycle of moral righteousness because it feels right, but most of the time it's just pissing into the wind.
Are we really just stuck with the status quo as you seem to suggest? Shouldn't somebody stand up and say something in the face of inequity? I might not have the courage to be the one but, don't you hope that someone does? I know that our hopes don't mean much when it comes to reality but, is there anyone who you would advise to take up the torch? Is it a lost cause entirely?
I think you may well be right.Loren Pechtel wrote:Your "ethics" department is about getting people to think they can fix the problem rather than go to regulators or the like.
Thank you all.
[quote=""connick""]
With regards to the other employee's responsibilities I feel that I am, at least in part, morally responsible for my fellow man. If you are not familiar with my position on morality, I feel this way as a matter of personal preference and do not believe that they are inherently entitled to fair treatment or my assistance.[/quote]
The best thing to do is to teach them how to fish rather than giving the fish to them, in my opinion.
With regards to the other employee's responsibilities I feel that I am, at least in part, morally responsible for my fellow man. If you are not familiar with my position on morality, I feel this way as a matter of personal preference and do not believe that they are inherently entitled to fair treatment or my assistance.[/quote]
The best thing to do is to teach them how to fish rather than giving the fish to them, in my opinion.
So then why do you have to do what they are not willing to do.In any case, I've spoken with some of them and none are willing to speak up any more than they already have.
[quote=""connick""]Sorry to take so long responding.
I appreciate the considerate advice. I should clarify that the "forum" isn't structured like the fora here. It's more of a virtual drop-box with a web page for displaying responses.
Perhaps I was naive to think that the ethics hotline was either independent from the company or at least staffed by people who cared about and could do something about what is going on.
I've been lucky enough to be well taken care of by the company so, although I have strong (or perhaps not so much as I've thought) moral convictions about this unfair treatment, I'm reluctant to risk losing the level of financial comfort I've been afforded.
I'm not exactly next in line but, I could see myself possibly assuming a significant management role within the next decade or less. I should note that I'm relatively early into my career but regarded as an "up and comer".
What specifically do you think would be helped by carrying multiple thumb drives? I'm not sure what to do with that advice.
Regarding diversification, I would love if there were better practical options. I have established the foundations of a good career here and I won't comment on my wife's sentiments about finding a different employer. If you are or have been married I'm sure you can understand.
ryan, I feel that I am fairly realistic when it comes to my expectations of these type of affairs but, I also hold the (perhaps false) belief that some recourse is possible. I guess the biggest piece of advice I'm looking for is, is it even possible to do anything meaningful about this?
As to confidentiality, I assume that nothing is private as a matter of course but, I suppose I'm surprised that they would be so blatant in lying about it. I endeavor, as a wheel, to only squeak when things are truly upsetting to me so I don't have any fears about what I've already submitted.
With regards to the other employee's responsibilities I feel that I am, at least in part, morally responsible for my fellow man. If you are not familiar with my position on morality, I feel this way as a matter of personal preference and do not believe that they are inherently entitled to fair treatment or my assistance.
In any case, I've spoken with some of them and none are willing to speak up any more than they already have.
I know but, I fear that any pro-union activity is just asking to be a part of the next "right sizing" or "restructuring". There is no union to speak of and, while I feel that I possess enough of the trust of the general working population to start one, I don't know if I could commit to leading the charge. If I felt assured that they couldn't hold it against me I'd start a union in an instant but, if others here are being more realistic than jaded, it could just be a waste.
I appreciate and share your distrust in the so-called anonymous.
Are we really just stuck with the status quo as you seem to suggest? Shouldn't somebody stand up and say something in the face of inequity? I might not have the courage to be the one but, don't you hope that someone does? I know that our hopes don't mean much when it comes to reality but, is there anyone who you would advise to take up the torch? Is it a lost cause entirely?
Thank you all.[/QUOTE]
This response of connick's is a wonderful illustration of the gun employers have over employees. The system is rigged so that in order to address inequities you must risk being able to feed and shelter yourself and your family.
I can't wait for this system to burn to the ground.
Great advice!ksen wrote:2nd amendment
I appreciate the considerate advice. I should clarify that the "forum" isn't structured like the fora here. It's more of a virtual drop-box with a web page for displaying responses.
Perhaps I was naive to think that the ethics hotline was either independent from the company or at least staffed by people who cared about and could do something about what is going on.
I've been lucky enough to be well taken care of by the company so, although I have strong (or perhaps not so much as I've thought) moral convictions about this unfair treatment, I'm reluctant to risk losing the level of financial comfort I've been afforded.
I'm not exactly next in line but, I could see myself possibly assuming a significant management role within the next decade or less. I should note that I'm relatively early into my career but regarded as an "up and comer".
What specifically do you think would be helped by carrying multiple thumb drives? I'm not sure what to do with that advice.
Regarding diversification, I would love if there were better practical options. I have established the foundations of a good career here and I won't comment on my wife's sentiments about finding a different employer. If you are or have been married I'm sure you can understand.
ryan, I feel that I am fairly realistic when it comes to my expectations of these type of affairs but, I also hold the (perhaps false) belief that some recourse is possible. I guess the biggest piece of advice I'm looking for is, is it even possible to do anything meaningful about this?
As to confidentiality, I assume that nothing is private as a matter of course but, I suppose I'm surprised that they would be so blatant in lying about it. I endeavor, as a wheel, to only squeak when things are truly upsetting to me so I don't have any fears about what I've already submitted.
With regards to the other employee's responsibilities I feel that I am, at least in part, morally responsible for my fellow man. If you are not familiar with my position on morality, I feel this way as a matter of personal preference and do not believe that they are inherently entitled to fair treatment or my assistance.
In any case, I've spoken with some of them and none are willing to speak up any more than they already have.
I know but, I fear that any pro-union activity is just asking to be a part of the next "right sizing" or "restructuring". There is no union to speak of and, while I feel that I possess enough of the trust of the general working population to start one, I don't know if I could commit to leading the charge. If I felt assured that they couldn't hold it against me I'd start a union in an instant but, if others here are being more realistic than jaded, it could just be a waste.
I appreciate and share your distrust in the so-called anonymous.
Are we really just stuck with the status quo as you seem to suggest? Shouldn't somebody stand up and say something in the face of inequity? I might not have the courage to be the one but, don't you hope that someone does? I know that our hopes don't mean much when it comes to reality but, is there anyone who you would advise to take up the torch? Is it a lost cause entirely?
I think you may well be right.Loren Pechtel wrote:Your "ethics" department is about getting people to think they can fix the problem rather than go to regulators or the like.
Thank you all.[/QUOTE]
This response of connick's is a wonderful illustration of the gun employers have over employees. The system is rigged so that in order to address inequities you must risk being able to feed and shelter yourself and your family.
I can't wait for this system to burn to the ground.