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Me, mturner, and a desk full of quarters: a thoroughly irrational post

Miscellaneous Discussions thread archive for the 2nd quarter, 2001.
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Post by Deleted » Wed Jun 27, 2001 8:44 am

6days

As for your flood URL, see this one:
]http://www.trueorigins.org/arkdefen.htm


Thank you. I read Sarfati's critique of Mark Isaak's review earlier. He selectively addressed some of the issues without providing the basis of computations or new verifiable evidence. I do not find Woodmorappe to be an appropriate source work for many of the same reasons. Without the data specifically used to arrive at the Woodmorappe tables, they are hardly verifiable. (Saying that everything is in the book sounds more like a sales pitch than a scientific response.) I found Woodmorappe's rebuttal to Glen Morton's review of his book to be less than unemotional or of much notable scientific value. He even admits that he was merely searching for ways wherein he could attempt to justify the Noah/Flood fable without recourse to supernatural miracles. I fear I did not find some of his postulates very convincing nor supported by verifiable evidence. Conjecture is fine as long as it is based on what we have been able to verify as much as possible. For those who might wish to know more about this Physical Chemist Dr. Safati, I have provided the following link:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/ar ... arfati.asp

In the case of Dr. Baumgardner, I find that I must concur with the other experts in his specialty. I have extracted their views of him ... which are far different in tone than those of either Woodmorappe or Sarfati in their efforts to support a supernatural world/origins. However, I do not support Morton or Isaak when they approach the subject with innuendo or a sense of righteousness in their beliefs. Let the verifiable evidence speak for itself. I have found that it does a very nicely when used against many of the biblical claims...until those claims resort to supernatural intercession...then science, most unfortunately it seems, has no recourse but to withdraw from any further meaningful discussion. This allows creationist supernaturalists to make some rather unusual claims about subjects in which they have very little expertise and must rely primarily on the claims of other young earth creationists. (Actually, I have found the conflict between the YEC and the OEC to be healthy and fascinating. I can only guess what it might degenerate into if other major faith believers with scientific credentials were to take an interest in the claims found in the so-called divinely inspired Holy Bible.)

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/970616/16terr.htm

(Extract)
Among geologists, there is universal agreement that Baumgardner's views are simply wrong. The fact that the sedimentary record contains anomalies is unremarkable, they say. There are always anomalies. The real debate is about physics and belief. Runaway subduction, these scientists add, requires the suspension of the most basic laws of physics. The theory requires a Through the Looking Glass world where nothing is as it seems and no scientific principle--from gravity and electromagnetism on down--exists as it exists today. Baumgardner himself says, "The only way to square the radiometric data with a flood that caused all these changes is to conclude that one aspect of the catastrophe was rapid radioactive decay." But what this means is that for a few years the universe behaved completely differently, compressing processes which now take millions of years into merely days.
This is not impossible. It just contradicts almost every existing piece of evidence. Brad Hager, a Massachusetts Institute of Technology geophysicist, notes that the time scale of the Earth is determined by how fast rocks conduct heat, or "thermal diffusivity." "If you were to choose," says Hager, "to believe that by some miracle the diffusivity of the Earth was different before we learned to measure it, then you could speed up these calculations. But it would mean that rocks conducted heat differently in the past."
Yet Hager has only respect for Baumgardner's computer program. Indeed, there is universal agreement that Terra, created to prove the Bible literally true, is one of the most useful and powerful geological tools in existence. "Baumgardner is seen as one of the world leaders in numerical models of mantle convection," says Hager. Agrees Gerald Schubert of the University of California--Los Angeles Department of Earth and Space Sciences: "As far as the code goes, Baumgardner is a world-class scientist."
Baumgardner the Christian is well known in Los Alamos. Most people shake their heads wryly or with open irritation at the mention of his name. Abe Jacobson, an atmospheric scientist, says Baumgardner is "known here in the Los Alamos community as a Christian rabble-rouser. My wife is a schoolteacher here, and Baumgardner regularly takes issue with the teaching of evolution in the public schools, but personally he is nice enough."
Baumgardner the scientist, however, is accepted completely among scientists, perhaps because he so easily maintains what Jacobson calls his "disconnect." He does not push his religious views on his colleagues. "I've never become personally involved in these issues," says Hager. "I avoid discussing the topic with John."
In Los Alamos, Baumgardner, his wife, Jean, and their daughter regularly attend Calvary Chapel, which sits atop a mesa over the Rio Grande. Most members of the church believe, as Baumgardner does, that God created the river around 6,000 years ago. Terra can prove this for them. Or it can prove that the ancestral Rio Grande flowed massively across this plain in the late Tertiary Period, between 2 and 5 million years ago.
One can look down at the river from Calvary Chapel's mesa and believe whatever one wants to about it. Belief does not need the blessing of science. But to John Baumgardner, both a Christian and a scientist, apparently it does. (End extract)

(Obviously something has happened to this post that is beyond my very limited PC knowledge. Sorry. I don't see where to fix it.)

[This message has been edited by Buffman (edited June 27, 2001).]

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Post by Deleted » Wed Jun 27, 2001 2:04 pm

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 6days:
Ah, another common evolutionist tactic. Change the definition to suit your own purpose. The definition here was of broken down.</font>
I wasn't aware that we had agreed on a mutually acceptable definition of "broken down".

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">...when I make a simple observation about you and end the conversation I have broken down.</font>
I take it, then, that when you broke down and yelled, "This conversation is OVER", you were actually lying, since you decided to continue it. Gosh, it's true what they say about creationists, you are all liars.

Or maybe just the broken-down ones. What do you say, 6days? And when are you going to explain what your dictionary definition : "one skilled in evolutions" means? Come on, this is simple (although you won't be getting anyone's phone number for it).


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Post by Deleted » Wed Jun 27, 2001 6:23 pm

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 6days:
There is no possible way to disprove the miracles I have seen.</font>
No one with intelligence and just the most basic understanding understanding of logic and science would say something so foolish.
You've insulted your own intelligence more thouroughly than any other poster on this thread.

Rick


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Post by Deleted » Wed Jun 27, 2001 8:12 pm

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by QueenofSwords:
I take it, then, that when you broke down and yelled, "This conversation is OVER", you were actually lying, since you decided to continue it. Gosh, it's true what they say about creationists, you are all liars.</font>
This is a different conversation. The topic is no longer how many evolutionists I know that have broken down. It is now about how evolutionists change definitions of words to suit their purposes.

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Post by Deleted » Wed Jun 27, 2001 8:16 pm

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rbochnermd:
No one with intelligence and just the most basic understanding understanding of logic and science would say something so foolish.
You've insulted your own intelligence more thouroughly than any other poster on this thread.

Rick
</font>
Well then how do you disprove a finger regenerating itself through prayer? How do you disprove dead crops coming back to life over night through prayer? These are things that I have seen with my own eyes. Most likely you will simply reject it but there is no way that you can disprove these events.

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Post by Deleted » Wed Jun 27, 2001 8:23 pm

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">originally posted by 6days:
Well then how do you disprove a finger regenerating itself through prayer? </font>
What utter nonsense! Please provide proof of such a wild claim! If it happened it would most certainly be in all the Medical Journals, not to mention the news. All medical people could quit their jobs and rely on prayer alone!

edited to add;
hahahahahahahahahaha

[This message has been edited by Mad Kally (edited June 27, 2001).]

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Post by Deleted » Wed Jun 27, 2001 8:38 pm

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mad Kally:
What utter nonsense! Please provide proof of such a wild claim! If it happened it would most certainly be in all the Medical Journals, not to mention the news. All medical people could quit their jobs and rely on prayer alone!

edited to add;
hahahahahahahahahaha

[This message has been edited by Mad Kally (edited June 27, 2001).]
</font>

6days wants you to be impressed with what he has seen and experienced! Laughing at him will only make him more bound and determined to show you how knowledgeable he is.

Mad Kally, if you do not show him the respect he thinks he merits, you will frustrate him! You don't really want to do that to the pitiful guy do you? Image


-BP

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Post by Deleted » Wed Jun 27, 2001 8:38 pm

Additional laughter:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
*gasp*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

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Post by Deleted » Wed Jun 27, 2001 8:40 pm

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mad Kally:
What utter nonsense! Please provide proof of such a wild claim! If it happened it would most certainly be in all the Medical Journals, not to mention the news. All medical people could quit their jobs and rely on prayer alone!

edited to add;
hahahahahahahahahaha
</font>
Scoff not woman, for I too have first-hand experience of a lifeless uh… digit, shall we say, spring to life – vibrant, throbbing, pounding life - after a brief but intense prayer. Of course, I wasn’t the one who was on my knees uh… praying at the time, but the concept is the same.

And this miracle occurs several times a week - on a good week that is.



[This message has been edited by Howard (edited June 27, 2001).]

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Post by Deleted » Wed Jun 27, 2001 8:41 pm

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by tronvillain:
Additional laughter:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
*gasp*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
</font>

Stop laughing at 6days!! You know he can't help being the way he is!!! Image


-BP



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